Comment 1 by Ahiiron on 2011-11-01 18:26
Can't confirm here on XP SP3 using NVDA2011.3 beta1, IE8, using eSpeak. Could this be perhaps a Hungarian localization bug?
I did a few tests using eSpeak, but typing "accountoptions" reads exactly (or very similar to) how it sounds as "account options." Of course, camel case like "AccountOptions" sounds just fine, as NVDA's builtin dictionary handles this.

Comment 2 by Palacee_hun (in reply to comment 1) on 2011-11-01 18:56
I note that I think the gap between two separate words is longer in the Hungarian voice of Espeak than in the English voice and it seems to be so for every version of Espeak I have ever used as part of NVDA. So it's much easier to decide whether two words are separated with spaces or not using the Hungarian voice. The described behaviour was instantly noticeable in 2011.3 beta1 after installing it, it was so remarkable. I only wanted to test it thoroughly before reporting, that's why I delayed reporting it till now. I am not aware of any Hungarian language related changes since R4695.
[to [comment:1 Ahiiron]([br]]
Replying):

Can't confirm here on XP SP3 using NVDA2011.3 beta1, IE8, using eSpeak. Could this be perhaps a Hungarian localization bug?

I did a few tests using eSpeak, but typing "accountoptions" reads exactly (or very similar to) how it sounds as "account options." Of course, camel case like "AccountOptions" sounds just fine, as NVDA's builtin dictionary handles this.

Comment 3 by jonsd on 2011-11-01 19:16
Which version of eSpeak is this using?

This may be due to a change which I made for the Hungarian language in eSpeak development version 1.45.46. eSpeak version 1.45.47 contains an improved version of this change, so if version 1.45.46 is currently being used then version 1.45.47 may fix the problem.

This change to the eSpeak Hungarian voice was requested by Hammer Attila hammera@pickup.hu who uses eSpeak on Linux rather than with NVDA on Windows.

The purpose was to improve the intonation of personal names. If it causes problems in other places then perhaps I should remove it.

The rule is this (for the Hungarian voice only): If the final two words of a sentence or clause (i.e. before punctuation) both have capital letters, then the second of these words is not stressed. For example, using the command-line version of eSpeak 1.45.47 compare:

espeak -v hu "Hammer Attila"
espeak -v hu "Hammer Attila."

The bug in eSpeak 1.45.46 was that the rule was applied even if there was no punctuation after the two words.

Comment 4 by briang1 on 2011-11-01 19:24
Well using the English version I cannot get the effect here on the same page, though Google are fooling about with the standard html a bit of late, but I cannot see they could affect this.

Comment 5 by Palacee_hun (in reply to comment 3) on 2011-11-01 20:43
You've just pinpointed the cause of the reported issue, thanks!!! [beta1 contains 1.45.46, while R4695 ran on 1.45.45. Your description of this special rule seems to explain everything. So this is Hungarian-specific.[[br]([br]]
2011.3)]
Now I think the next step would be for NVDA to require 1.45.47, which change of course would need further testing from users in order to find accidental bugs, and I am not sure whether the developers would undertake this in this phase of the 2011.3 release cycle (we are in beta1!)[to [comment:3 jonsd]([br]]
Replying):

Which version of eSpeak is this using?

This may be due to a change which I made for the Hungarian language in eSpeak development version 1.45.46. eSpeak version 1.45.47 contains an improved version of this change, so if version 1.45.46 is currently being used then version 1.45.47 may fix the problem.

This change to the eSpeak Hungarian voice was requested by Hammer Attila hammera@pickup.hu who uses eSpeak on Linux rather than with NVDA on Windows.

The purpose was to improve the intonation of personal names. If it causes problems in other places then perhaps I should remove it.

The rule is this (for the Hungarian voice only): If the final two words of a sentence or clause (i.e. before punctuation) both have capital letters, then the second of these words is not stressed. For example, using the command-line version of eSpeak 1.45.47 compare:

espeak -v hu "Hammer Attila"

espeak -v hu "Hammer Attila."

The bug in eSpeak 1.45.46 was that the rule was applied even if there was no punctuation after the two words.

Comment 6 by jteh on 2011-11-03 02:34
084a037 requires eSpeak >= 1.45.47 and the build server has been updated accordingly. Please test a snapshot (once it becomes available) and close this ticket if it is fixed.
Changes:
Changed title from "Regression in 2011.3 beta1: when arrowing through virtual buffers or querying tittle bars, NVDA seems to glue the last two words on the line together (i.e. speaks them as if there were no spaces between them)" to "eSpeak Hungarian: when arrowing through virtual buffers or querying title bars, NVDA seems to glue the last two words on the line together (i.e. speaks them as if there were no spaces between them)"
Milestone changed from None to 2011.3

Comment 7 by erion (in reply to comment 6) on 2011-11-03 11:53
Replying to jteh:

084a037 requires eSpeak >= 1.45.47 and the build server has been updated accordingly. Please test a snapshot (once it becomes available) and close this ticket if it is fixed.

Tested using main-4773. When two words next to each other begin with a capital letter they are properly stressed, however when they are followed by any punctuation mark the stress moves to the first word.
It is difficult to say whether this is fixed, as some may prefer this way when reading proper nouns, though it sounds horrible when there are phrases such as: Mozilla Thunderbird, Portable Edition.

I think the rule should also be ignored if two capitalized words are followed by a punctuation symbol other than a comma.

Comment 8 by Palacee_hun on 2011-11-09 13:23
After testing release-branch snapshot 4762 with Espeak 1.45.47 for a few days, I consider the situation satisfactory, and no other problems with the new Espeak version popped up.
[[br]]
I note that the Espeak rule described above about the stressing of adjoining capitalised words is highly subject to personal preference, not an inherent part of Hungarian phonetics. I personally feel the stressing much more unnatural when applying the new rule, the proposer probably felt the other way round. But the fixed rule restricts its application to such few cases that it doesn't cause much trouble to me any more. Should that bother me in the future, I'll just remove the rule myself and recompile the rule file by a command line version of Espeak.
Changes:
State: closed