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Possible interaction of NVDA with IE8 and Outlook Express in XP #3395

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nvaccessAuto opened this issue Aug 2, 2013 · 8 comments
Closed

Possible interaction of NVDA with IE8 and Outlook Express in XP #3395

nvaccessAuto opened this issue Aug 2, 2013 · 8 comments
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bug close/wontfix

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@nvaccessAuto
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Reported by briang1 on 2013-08-02 08:14
Now this is a strange an long running problem which has been around for some years now. I have mentioned it before on the dev list, but recengtly decided to attempt to prove it had something to do with nvda. What I did is rigged up a machine that I know has the issue. Thiswas not hard as all XP machines do!

I then made it work with an old copy of Hal by default and ran it for a few days to see if the issue came up. It did not, but it did if i closed Hal and used nvda again after just half an hour, so its very peculiar. Now nobody else seems to have mentioned it, so it could still be something else on my machines that interacts with nvda causing the strange symptoms. anyway, I present what I know here and you can decide what to do.

How to make things go wrong.
Machine running XP pro with all updates.
Outlook Express as default email and news reader reading in plain text mode
IE8 as default browser
Only add on which is possibly not usual is Simple Ad Block, the early free version. All other add ons are normal like flash etc
Javascript enabled

How to get problems.
There are two main issues, on affecting Outlook Express, and one IE.

read email and newsgroups for a while and when you see a link to a web site, make display go to html, I did it via the view menu and click the link. View the pag or pages and then close IE
After some time of reading and replying to emails and news messages one of the following effects happens
You cannot open an email or news posting, Outlook Express complains of not enough memory
or
it will tell you you cannot view the rest of a message as it has not yet been downloaded.
or
when you try to reply or start a new message, it will allow you to enter email addresses and sub lines, but when you tab to the main edit area, nvda just sayd pane, and nothing you type will go into the message. When you attempt to sent the blank page it complains of issues with spelling or character set mismatches and goes around in circles, obviously completely confused what is going on.

The only way out of this is to shut Outlook express, and restart it, and all returns to normal. Closing nvda will make no difference.
The IE issue is more simple, and I'm grouping these as it may well be the same issue.
If you restart nvda or boot in a different version while IE8 is running about 1 time in 3, IE will not be there after the reboot. it just disappears, and is not visible in the task manager.

In the Outlook Express issue, the effects seem to be lack of memory, but the memory usage does not go out of what is normal for the software from what I can see in Task manager, so it is a bogus report.
This has as I say been the case for a long time for me, and yet as nobody else has reported it and we do have a lot of xp users, I am at a loss to know what the issue really is here.
Nothing untoward is ever visible in nvda or its log.
@nvaccessAuto
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Comment 1 by mdcurran on 2013-08-07 00:59
You may wish to test with the following try build:
http://community.nvda-project.org/try/mshtmlWithIConnectionPoint/nvda_snapshot_try-mshtmlWithIConnectionPoint-9376,ae463ca.exe

However, remember to reboot and start this new try build before starting outlook express / IE as an older NVDA may be the cause of the issue.

@nvaccessAuto
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Comment 2 by briang1 on 2013-08-07 07:48
OK what I've done is to make the try build the installed version on one computer, and rebooted the machine to be on the safe side.If you think it might be best to completely remove nvda first let me know.
In writing this though it seems a little sluggish to me.
I'll have to test this for some days due to the flakeyness of the issue.

@nvaccessAuto
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Comment 3 by briang1 on 2013-08-07 09:23
I am now using a normal snap from master branch and the typing is faster again, so the new way for getting events seems to slow down the code particularly in edit fields then.
I also found that Outlook express was experiancing different funnies from those with the normal snaps, mainly that after a few operations of links in html emails the html display mode lost its browse mode status, ie it only could tab between links. anothe time it got stuck in the folder view and I could not get back to the folders themselves.

However this is just one morning so I'll keep using the try version unless I'm typing into fields where its really slow even on a dual core machine.

@nvaccessAuto
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Comment 4 by briang1 on 2013-08-08 10:22
I am now using it on a much slower machines. Its not missing characters, just saying them slowly.

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Comment 5 by briang1 on 2013-08-09 06:50
OK, from the crashing point of view, I think its more stable. However it is unusable in IE for me due to the slow down of navigation and apparent processor maxing out in bursts in navigating in browse mode
If this effect could be sorted Its seemingly less prone to funny errors but of course its hard to be completely sure without being able to actually use it quickly.

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Comment 6 by briang1 on 2014-10-11 08:54
Hi again. As there seems to have been no action here, I thought i'd best say this issue is still present on release and snaps the current release 2014.3 is still giving the described issues. The key point is that for Outlook Express there has to have been use of mshtml at some point whileOE is still open, whether that is from html being invoked in the message display, or from opening a link, such as I did to type this ticket. If you use Firefox as the default browser, it then only happens if you use mshtml in the email message window. Stick to plain text and cut and paste links to firefox and all is well.

IE8 I guess is the culprit, and as one cannot update it on xp, then it has to be the code used in the message window. However as I said originally, if one uses a different screenreader there is neve a problem with Outlook express, so the flakey behaviour has to be due to nvda in some way.
I have also noticed that the odd going away of IE is also still occuring and indeed, one of the times this seems most prone is in portable updates to nvda, where if its the default browser, the download gets to almost the end, then hangs for an age, and after it makes the completed noise then it seems to forget to display the next part and vanishes on aregular basis.Its always good policy to use the save option or it never runs.

The tendency to vanish on windows update checking is also still occuring, but not if I use other screenreaders.

I thought you ought to know, as although XP is officially dead, it is not goingquietly, and anyway, if there is some hitherto unknown interaction going on, it might come back to haunt us sometime later on in a later version of Windows.

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Comment 7 by briang1 on 2014-10-11 15:44

IO - speech.speak (15:40:24):
Speaking Jonathan Horniblow (Talking Newspaper Services); Subject: Re: Update and progress; Received: 11/10/2014 13:44 56 of 56'
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (15:40:25):
Input: kb(desktop):control+r
IO - speech.speak (15:40:26):
Speaking Update and progress - Unicode (UTF-8)'
IO - speech.speak (15:40:26):
Speaking [u'pane']
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (15:40:28):
Input: kb(desktop):shift+w
IO - speech._speakSpellingGen (15:40:28):
Speaking character u'W'
DEBUG - queueHandler.registerGeneratorObject (15:40:28):
Adding generator 226
DEBUG - queueHandler.pumpAll (15:40:28):
generator 226 finished
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (15:40:29):
Input: kb(desktop):e
IO - speech._speakSpellingGen (15:40:29):
Speaking character u'e'
DEBUG - queueHandler.registerGeneratorObject (15:40:29):
Adding generator 227
DEBUG - queueHandler.pumpAll (15:40:29):
generator 227 finished
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (15:40:29):
Input: kb(desktop):l
IO - speech._speakSpellingGen (15:40:29):
Speaking character u'l'
DEBUG - queueHandler.registerGeneratorObject (15:40:29):
Adding generator 228
DEBUG - queueHandler.pumpAll (15:40:29):
generator 228 finished
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (15:40:29):
Input: kb(desktop):l
IO - speech._speakSpellingGen (15:40:29):
Speaking character u'l'
DEBUG - queueHandler.registerGeneratorObject (15:40:29):
Adding generator 229
DEBUG - queueHandler.pumpAll (15:40:29):
generator 229 finished
IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (15:40:31):
Input: kb(desktop):,
IO - speech.speakTypedCharacters (15:40:31):

typed word: Well

As you can see, it seems to be typing in but as its not an edit area, nothing is really there.

With the machine I made this log on only having 1 gig of ram, then it happens a lot more often. As I say this is only one manifestation of the memory problem that actually isnt, at least not according to the task manager.
Weird.

Hence my comment about the keys reading back when they should not in the devel list.

@Brian1Gaff Brian1Gaff mentioned this issue Mar 13, 2016
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@LeonarddeR
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XP specific issues won't be fixed any more, unless really critical. Closing as wontfix.

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