Comment 1 by jteh on 2014-04-28 23:26
I certainly understand the desire to jump to the last object. However, you can already jump to the first object by moving to the container (numpad8) and then to the first object it contains (numpad2). It's true that this is two keystrokes instead of one, but given that this isn't something that needs to be done repetitively, I think using an extra keystroke for this is unjustified.

Comment 2 by ateu on 2014-04-29 01:10
But I mean in the same level. Did you understand this?

Comment 3 by jteh on 2014-04-29 04:02
Right, but going to the container and then inside will take you to the first object at the same level.

@jcsteh I would argue that a pair of keyboard commands to jump to the first and last object in the current object hierarchy level is only intuitive, and users might not even consciously realize at first that going a level up and then back down would emulate the same behaviour, or, at least, that is only an existent work-around, not a logical or very apparent one, especially given how frustrating many new users find the concept of object navigation already. Anyways, if NumPad 6 or End is being used in cojunction with everything else, I cannot imagine a practical use to which their first object counterparts, i.e. NumPad 4 or Home, could be put.
P.S. Upon reading the work-around Jamie stated, I actually felt like moving a level up and then a level down should ideally remember the object's position and navigate to that particular object rather than always defaulting to the first of the lot. Could we briefly discuss this here itself?

@bhavyashah commented on 5 Sep 2017, 23:11 GMT+10:

P.S. Upon reading the work-around Jamie stated, I actually felt like moving a level up and then a level down should ideally remember the object's position and navigate to that particular object rather than always defaulting to the first of the lot. Could we briefly discuss this here itself?

I don't think this is something we want to do:

1. It changes behaviour that has been the same for many years.
2. It's inconsistent with hierarchical navigation anywhere else I've seen; tree controls, VoiceOver and MathPlayer, just to name a few.
3. It makes the behaviour of moving inside a container difficult to predict. A user might not remember that they were originally on the 15th object inside the container when they were last looking at it.
4. It's problematic with respect to implementation. We'd have to keep track of the last child the user navigated to in every container they touched. That's going to result in some serious memory leakage at best.

I tend to think that if we'd add a command to move to the last object on a certain level of the objects tree, we should also add an command to go to the first object, if it were only to create something that is symmetric.

there is a discussion also on this Point in #7759. Proposal is to lock object Navigation similar to browse mode and to provide Navigation keys to Approach different objects.

@jcsteh in #7759 there is a global plugin created by @Robert-J-H which remembers the child objects even if you go up to the first Container. I am working with object Navigation very often and I can say from a user perspective that that global plugin helps alot. I have also got much Information from users on their opinion regarding object Navigation because I am one of the community leader in Germany and Romania. The current Approach used by NVDA seems to be very complex for most users and many of them are not willing to use it because they feel disorientated on the Screen. Especially if you have an application like ABBYY finereader or a browser where parent objects contain lots of child objects, you don't actually want to be thrown automatically back to the first child when leaving the parent object and returning back to it. So in my opinion it would help if NVDA reports the current item number when getting inside the parent object (i.e. 15 of 30). In this case the user would know on which child object the navigator is currently placed.
I agree with you that this Kind of hierarchical Navigation is not common. From a development Point of view it is correct. But the user experience would be lot better if the object Navigation can be simplified by such a measure.cc: @michaelDCurran