Comment 1 by driemer.riemer@... on 2014-09-07 21:53
Changes:
Changed title from "make role for collapsed on braille displays shorter." to "make states for expanded and collapsed on braille displays shorter."

Comment 2 by jteh on 2014-09-07 22:13
The abbreviations are processed using the current table, so that won't always look the way you expect. I'd also argue this isn't intuitive; at least, it isn't to me. What about a plus symbol for collapsed (indicating that it can be expanded) and a minus symbol for expanded?

Comment 3 by driemer.riemer@... on 2014-09-07 22:44
That would work as long as it is documented.

Comment 4 by halim on 2014-09-09 06:22
Hmm, wouldn't it be a more generic solution for changing such thing by accepting #4105???
The braillemapper patch is able to adress this and much more.

Comment 5 by jteh on 2014-09-09 10:15
Making something configurable doesn't mean that we no longer have to continue improving the default experience. Also, getting #4105 ready for inclusion is a great deal more difficult than small improvements like this, especially given that there are still outstanding concerns regarding #4105.

Comment 6 by halim on 2014-09-09 14:04
Feel free to test the patch from #4105 and explain your concern in that ticket.
I think ignoring such intiatves of some developers is not the right way.

Comment 7 by jteh (in reply to comment 6) on 2014-09-09 22:02
Replying to halim:

Feel free to test the patch from #4105 and explain your concern in that ticket.

I already have, as you'll note if you read the ticket. Some responses were provided, but the concerns haven't been rectified yet.

I think ignoring such intiatves of some developers is not the right way.

They aren't being ignored. If they were, I wouldn't have bothered to comment on the ticket at all. However, there is a great deal of work to do and two lead developers to do most of it. As such, work has to be prioritised.

Comment 8 by jteh on 2014-09-09 22:04
I'll also note that I gave clear reasons that #4105 is not the entire solution; the default experience still needs to be improved where appropriate.

Comment 9 by aliminator (in reply to comment 8) on 2014-09-10 08:16
Of course providing configuration possibilities only does not solve the problem completely.
But nevertheless it provides a platform that users can configure NVDA and then, after a while of experience, they could open tickets to suggest some other defaults.
Unfortunately there was no further reply from you to my comment in #4105 so I didn't know whether this comment has been ignored at all or not.
Furthermore at the beginning of that ticket you wrote that you haven't even looked at the patch. So when did you test it? I ask because there was no feedback of this testing in the ticket. As I wrote at #4105 I am still willing to develope this functionality.
So what kind of great deal of work are you talking exactly?
The patch makes modification at the config object (for saving) and adds one function in the braille.py and modifies two existing functions.
What else has to be done (apart from gui and documentation)?

Comment 10 by jteh (in reply to comment 9) on 2014-09-10 08:42
Let's move #4105 discussion to #4105.

Comment 11 by nvdakor (in reply to comment 2) on 2014-10-28 07:04
Replying to jteh:

The abbreviations are processed using the current table, so that won't always look the way you expect. I'd also argue this isn't intuitive; at least, it isn't to me. What about a plus symbol for collapsed (indicating that it can be expanded) and a minus symbol for expanded?

I'd say the other way around: a minus for when the current item is collapsed, a plus for when the item is expanded. Another way might be to use shorthands such as "clp" for collapsed and "exp" for expanded, similar to how submenus are presented.
Thanks.

Comment 12 by jteh on 2014-10-28 08:15
The reason for suggesting plus for a collapsed item is that, as I understand it, this is similar to the experience sighted users get; i.e. the plus signifies that it will expand the item if pressed.

Comment 13 by nvdakor on 2015-01-06 04:19
Hi,
When I tested it on Windows 8.1's File Explorer tree view, I didn't see "expanded" or "collapsed" on my Apex (used a BrailleNote Apex as a braille display); instead I saw plus and minux symbols.
For anyone having this problem, please try it with NvDA 2014.4 and/or latest master/next builds. Thanks.

Comment 14 by jteh on 2015-01-06 05:17
I just realised we already use + and - for expanded and collapsed, so the behaviour in comment:13 is expected.

The reason you're seeing "collapsed" in Thunderbird is that Thunderbird is actually choosing to expose this as part of the name. This needs to be addressed in Thunderbird.
Changes:
Changed title from "make states for expanded and collapsed on braille displays shorter." to "Thunderbird: make expanded and collapsed on braille displays shorter"

Thanks to René in this message, it sounds as if this has been changed in Thunderbird. Closing