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Add gettext contexts to some messages #5100

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nvaccessAuto opened this issue May 19, 2015 · 26 comments
Closed

Add gettext contexts to some messages #5100

nvaccessAuto opened this issue May 19, 2015 · 26 comments
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blocked/needs-code-review bug component/i18n existing localisations or internationalisation
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Reported by jteh on 2015-05-19 23:33
(Originally reported on nvda-translations.)

There should be two separate translatable messages for "column", as it is used for a table column and a column in a column chart. Currently, there is only one translation.

Blocked by #5185, #5209

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Comment 1 by nvdakor on 2015-05-19 23:40
Hi,
There are other strings that will need contexts:
*Tools (script category under input gestures)
Among others. These will be filed as separate tickets, hoping that we can work on a single branch to cover them.
Thanks.

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Comment 2 by jteh on 2015-05-20 00:13
While they're unrelated and I normally wouldn't say this, it's probably better to handle little tiny changes like this in one ticket, simply because it's easier to track a branch per ticket.

Out of interest, why does "Tools" need a context? I would have thought "Tools" as in the tools menu and "Tools" as in the gesture category were talking about the same thing.

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Comment 3 by nvdakor on 2015-05-20 00:48
Hi,
In case of "tools", we have a single entry that handles both a menu entry (tools menu under NVDA menu) and a script category. One way to solve it would be to provide a string just for tools menu label, or we can use contexts. I'm sure there are more like this.
Thhanks.

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Comment 4 by jteh on 2015-05-20 00:50
Yes, I understand that, but my question is why these are different from a linguistic perspective. They're both referring to categories of program tools. I can certainly understand it for "column", but for "Tools", it seems to me they would also be handled in exactly the same context.

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Comment 5 by nvdakor (in reply to comment 4) on 2015-05-20 01:06
Replying to jteh:

Yes, I understand that, but my question is why these are different from a linguistic perspective. They're both referring to categories of program tools. I can certainly understand it for "column", but for "Tools", it seems to me they would also be handled in exactly the same context.

When I look at various translations and while using different language interfaces, I found:

  • For Korean, we do have the correct pnumonic for opening tools submenu from NVDA menu, while the same string is used to describe script category, thus causing the raw Korean translation of "tools" (in this case, the word for "tools", followed by an ampersand and the letter T) to be shown.
  • For languages such as Arabic, Japanese and Spanish, perhaps because of script category or something, no pneumonic is shown for some NVDA menu items, or if shown, does not follow English hotkey assignment. In case of "tools", it is understandable, given that it is also used to denote a script category.
  • Programs localized into languages that does not use Latin alphabet or English-style keyboard layouts retain English pneumonic in case users want to access them quickly. For example, in Windows itself, despite various translations of the word 'shutdown", it uses the letter "U" as its pneumonic.
    Thanks.

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Comment 6 by jteh on 2015-05-20 01:10
Ah, makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. Generalising the ticket.
Changes:
Changed title from "Translatable message context for "column" as in a column chart" to "Add gettext contexts to some messages"

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Comment 7 by jteh on 2015-06-26 07:10
Joseph, are you willing to take this? So far, we've only confirmed a need for "column" and "Tools". Unless you know of others, it'd be good to at least get these done for 2015.3. Thanks.

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Comment 8 by nvdakor on 2015-06-26 07:14
Hi,
I'll work on it - working from a branch at this point (with the added benefit of trying to finish work on #1410).
As for other strings, we may need to ask other translators as to which strings should have contexts.
Thanks.

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Comment 9 by jteh on 2015-06-26 07:41
Thanks. It'd be great if you can get at least the confirmed ones done by 15 July so we can get them into 2015.3. Of course, do feel free to discuss with other translators as well.

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Comment 11 by nvdakor on 2015-07-01 03:43
Hi,
So far, message contexts for "tools" and some control type constants and Excel charts added.
Current workflow:

  • Branch: t5100
    Thanks.

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Comment 12 by gregjozk_ on 2015-07-01 05:47
Hi,

It could be good, if context would be added to "desktop" (keyboard layout) and and other desktop, which presents a place with icons. I know, that there is a translators note, but due to clarification, I think that it will be good.

p.s. May I suggest that this ticket stays opened, because many translators does not read a source and they find problematic messages during daily use of NVDA.

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Comment 13 by nishimotz on 2015-07-03 02:10
The "User Guide" messsage is used for both NVDA menu and Windows start menu shortcut.

In Japanese language, NVDA menu should be something like "User Guide (&U)".
Actual message is written in Japanese phonetic characters, followed by the accellerator.

For Windows start menu shortcut, we do not want to add "(&U)".

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Comment 14 by nvdakor on 2015-07-03 03:31
Hi,
The simplest solution is to use two different messages for User Guide entry. However, we run into problems:

  • This means installer will use original string, while the GUI will use the newer one. This means there may not be pneumonic for User Guide when NVDA program grup is browsed in Windows XP/Vista's start menu.
  • The only difference between the two strings is the presence of ampersand.
    I'll do something about it tonight - let me know if there are other places that require minor modifications to existing strings. Thanks.

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Comment 15 by jteh (in reply to comment 14) on 2015-07-03 04:29
Replying to nvdakor:

This means there may not be pneumonic for User Guide when NVDA program grup is browsed in Windows XP/Vista's start menu.

The mnemonic in that case is always the first letter and there's no way to override this. I don't consider this a problem, since this is the case for all Start Menu items.

  • The only difference between the two strings is the presence of ampersand.

In fact, for English, the strings will be the same because you don't need the & symbol when the mnemonic is the first letter, though I guess we could include it for clarity.

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Comment 16 by Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@... on 2015-07-03 06:00
In [853d3e81c93a34fb6d3f192ea21f4d0d6bd7eff9]:

GUI/INstaller: clarify translator comments and update transltable string for 'user guide' to let translators translate the Start menu item differnelty than that of NvDA menu entry. re #5100

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Comment 17 by nvdakor (in reply to comment 13) on 2015-07-03 06:04
Replying to nishimotz:

The "User Guide" messsage is used for both NVDA menu and Windows start menu shortcut.

In Japanese language, NVDA menu should be something like "User Guide (&U)".

Actual message is written in Japanese phonetic characters, followed by the accellerator.

For Windows start menu shortcut, we do not want to add "(&U)".

Done in branch t5100 commit 853d3e8.
Also, for future translators: when translating NVDA menu entries, if you speak a non-Latin based language such as one of the Asian languages, please use English pneumonic, otherwise users will not know how to activate NVDA menu entries from English keyboard layout.
Thanks.

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Comment 18 by jteh on 2015-07-10 02:04
Thanks! A few comments:

  1. Is there a solid use case for wanting "unknown" to be different for charts? The chart type is more or less similar to a control role, so I'm not sure I see a potential difference in meaning here.
  2. I'm not sure I see a need to add a "control role" context for "unknown" and "column", as this makes extra work for translators. (We've already got a context to distinguish "column" for charts.)
  3. For the terms that could obviously apply to charts generically (as opposed to just Excel), we should probably just use a context of "chart" instead of "Excel chart", as we might use these for other charting applications in the future.

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Comment 19 by nvdakor (in reply to comment 18) on 2015-07-10 02:27
Replying to jteh:

  1. For the terms that could obviously apply to charts generically (as opposed to just Excel), we should probably just use a context of "chart" instead of "Excel chart", as we might use these for other charting applications in the future.

Good point. But just having one string for all charts may pose problems where the same string may mean different things for other chart software, especially for those that were localized into other languages (but I'm sure 99 percent of them use same string and translation for these).
Thanks.

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Comment 20 by jteh (in reply to comment 19) on 2015-07-10 02:31
Replying to nvdakor:

But just having one string for all charts may pose problems where the same string may mean different things for other chart software, especially for those that were localized into other languages

Indeed. That's why I said only terms that are generic as far as charts are concerned. So, a column chart is a well known term in the charting field; as far as I know, everyone thinks of it the same way. However, some of the more obscure terminology might be Excel specific, so we need to be more careful there. Thankfully, we only need to come up with a context for one or two and I think those are generic.

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Comment 21 by jteh on 2015-07-10 05:58
As discussed on IRC, I've pushed a reworked branch incorporating these changes.

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Comment 22 by James Teh <jamie@... on 2015-07-10 06:01
In [5a2fa7e]:

Merge branch 't5100' into next

Incubates #5100.

Changes:
Added labels: incubating

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Comment 23 by nvdakor on 2015-07-11 19:47
Hi,
A major bug found: using next.12222, type error is thrown when one attempts to open Input Gestures dialog. It turns out "tools" became a tuple, and WXPython couldn't work with it.
Technical: My sincere apologies, might have come from one of my past commits. Tools category string should have been a string, not a tuple (next commit will fix it). Thanks.

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Comment 24 by Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@... on 2015-07-11 19:55
In [5ee2bd4]:

Global commands: An extra comma after Tools category string broke input gestures dialog, turning the string into a tuple when it should have been a string, now all back to normal. re #5100

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Comment 26 by James Teh <jamie@... on 2015-07-13 01:34
In [e942436]:

Merge branch 't5100' into next

Incubates #5100.

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Comment 27 by James Teh <jamie@... on 2015-07-31 03:16
In [ebb6ecc]:

Disambiguate/add gettext contexts to some messages.

Specifically:
- Differentiate "column" for the role and the chart type.
- Differentiate "Tools" for the NVDA menu (which requires an accelerator) and the script category.
- Differentiate "User Guide" for the NVDA menu (which requires an accelerator) and the Windows Start Menu.

Fixes #5100.

Changes:
Removed labels: incubating
State: closed

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Comment 28 by gregjozk_ on 2015-08-18 06:29
Hi, when I have chacked back my translations, I saw, that string column should have not 2, but 3 meanings. The last one is general chart type (column, line, pie, area...)

@nvaccessAuto nvaccessAuto added bug component/i18n existing localisations or internationalisation blocked/needs-code-review labels Nov 10, 2015
@nvaccessAuto nvaccessAuto added this to the 2015.3 milestone Nov 10, 2015
jcsteh added a commit that referenced this issue Nov 23, 2015
Specifically:
* Differentiate "column" for the role and the chart type.
* Differentiate "Tools" for the NVDA menu (which requires an accelerator) and the script category.
* Differentiate "User Guide" for the NVDA menu (which requires an accelerator) and the Windows Start Menu.

Fixes #5100.
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