Comment 1 by jteh on 2010-10-05 04:18
This was intentional. We now only report position information (including item counts) if the control supports retrieval of accurate position information. Unfortunately, most native Windows controls don't support this. Previously, we tried to guess this information using some info from MSAA, but this can lead to inaccurate position information. One example is separators being counted in menus, thus making it appear as if menu items are being skipped. Another example is the taskbar (both the notification area and running applications bar), where empty positions on the bar would be counted, thus causing very strange position info. Many users complained about this, so we no longer do it.
Changes:
Milestone changed from None to None
Added labels: wontfix
State: closed

Comment 2 by elliott94 on 2010-10-05 20:47
Could this not be made a user-configurable option?

Comment 3 by jteh on 2010-10-05 23:52
It'd be fairly confusing for most users and is also specific to one API (MSAA). To be accurate, we'd have to call it something like "Allow MSAA child ID and child count to be used as position information", which will make absolutely no sense to most users. I guess we could call it "Report position information even if it might be inaccurate". I'm not at all a fan of such configuration options. If we ever have some way of setting hidden config options, it might be worth considering, but i don't think this should be user visible.

Comment 4 by briang1 on 2010-10-06 10:08
I feel it was very useful where list length was not even known approximately. There is for example the list of words in message rules which can grow very big, and if you need to look through them, you really might like to know how long it may take to do so!
Then in software like registry cleaners, this aspect of unknown length is also helpful. Do you have a major uninstall failure or jjust a bit of detritis to clear up?
In neither of these cases have I known it to be more than one item out. the usual problem is that the header/label of the list is counted as item 1. I agree that in the trays etc, this can be misleading, but maybe some research about the most error prrone areas is needed and it could be reinstated elsewhere.
I guess one could just have Allow msaa count in lists. After all, you have warning boxes on other items so it could put up a box saying. Note setting this item on may make some item counts incorrect.

Other less useful option might be just a hot key to say, list contains approx xx items.

Changes:
Removed labels: wontfix
State: reopened

Comment 5 by jteh on 2010-10-06 20:27
It's worth noting that this was for a while one of the most complained about "features" of NVDA. You might be able to understand it now, but even one item off confuses new users. Adding another command is not really an acceptable option, as it is specific to one API. Also, we prefer to focus on accuracy, not approximation.

Note that it is possible to enable this for specific controls. I doubt we'd ever re-enable it for menus, but we could consider it for lists in certain applications. However, this would require us to manually examine each case, which is not likely to happen in the near future.

Leaving this open until I discuss further with Mick.

Comment 6 by briang1 on 2010-10-23 09:56
This topic has come up again on the freelists list around the 21st to 23rd of Oct, So far a user checkbox seems to be the way this is going.
I'd support that unless some other way to decide accuracy is discovered. You really need a decision of, is this info available in a more accurate way, if not then use this if checkbox for use msaa for numbering lists and menus is on. When this is checked an alert similar to the one for use settings on log in voice etc, has, perhaps.

Comment 7 by simon818 on 2010-11-07 08:41
I just thought I'd throw in my two cents here. Personally, I think while menus shouldn't be reported, certain list boxes should. There are many, many instances where I like my item counts to be spoken properly, and that's all gone now. If you're not going to have an application specific option, at least make it a checkbox in object presentation. Right next to report position information, have another box, report even if potentially inaccurate. Then give it one of those warning boxes, This could lead to potentially inaccurate position information, you shouldn't enable this unless you have a specific reason, etc, etc. But at least leave it up to the user. The menu number announcement got a bit annoying, but this is even more so now. I find more information more useful than not enough.

Comment 8 by jteh on 2011-01-04 05:36
Changes:
Changed title from "ANNOUNCEMENT OF MENU COUNT BROKEN" to "Option to guess object position information using MSAA child ID"

Comment 9 by mdcurran on 2011-01-20 07:49
Implemented as a setting in Object Presentation settings dialog in 3d28a1a.
Changes:
Milestone changed from None to 2011.1
State: closed